Comments on: Top Ten Reasons Why the Kindle Won’t Be an iPod for Books http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html The best free cultural & educational media on the web Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:00:59 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Richard Prince http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-9865 Richard Prince Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:10:59 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-9865 Microsoft / HP color tablet shown at CES Las Vegas: http://www.pcworld.com/article/186172/why_the_microsofthp_tablet_is_a_big_disappointment.html Microsoft / HP color tablet shown at CES Las Vegas: http://www.pcworld.com/article/186172/why_the_microsofthp_tablet_is_a_big_disappointment.html

]]> By: Richard Prince http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-9066 Richard Prince Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:18:14 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-9066 I think the other point I am in agreement with Kurt about is REACH. People try to put this debate in terms of physical object or paper vs. digital or small vs. large form factors. These things play a part but only a small part. The game that is being played out is distribution and reach; mass market acceptance and building a critical mass of content (books, reference, educational, periodicals, entertainment, etc.) to draw people to this delivery platform. People will argue what was more important to the success of the iPod or the iPhone - the sensual objectness of the device or the iTunes and Apple App stores. I come down on the side of the reach of the distribution network and standardization of formats. I think the other point I am in agreement with Kurt about is REACH. People try to put this debate in terms of physical object or paper vs. digital or small vs. large form factors. These things play a part but only a small part. The game that is being played out is distribution and reach; mass market acceptance and building a critical mass of content (books, reference, educational, periodicals, entertainment, etc.) to draw people to this delivery platform. People will argue what was more important to the success of the iPod or the iPhone – the sensual objectness of the device or the iTunes and Apple App stores. I come down on the side of the reach of the distribution network and standardization of formats.

]]> By: Richard Prince http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-8976 Richard Prince Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:37:13 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-8976 I think the list of 10 items is a lot pretty weak reasoning. I think Kurt begins to get at many of the problems with the "reasons." Perhaps you are just trying to be funny or provocative... but still it is weak and seemingly uninformed (Kindle too big for example). All of the current devices Kindle, Sony eReader, Nook, etc. are severely limited technologies - the first of their type and clearly will be seen as the Palm Pilot PDA or the MPMan and Rio MP3 players. The major and disqualifying characteristic of the Kindle and why it won't last, in its current version, is that has a Black and White monitor. But that's just the beginning of its hardware and design flaws. The key to the Kindle or any other eReader to come along is not the hardware and just like the iPhone, it is the distribution infrastructure of being able to deliver CONTENT easily, efficiently, and by reducing costs that far exceed the book. Books are NOT easy to get, they are highly physically cumbersome to get into the hands of readers and difficult to distribute, especially if you want something more than just the best sellers and chart toppers. Book buyers are constantly just guessing (and often poorly guessing) at what readers want and then begin this incredibly expensive channeling, routing, shipping, storing and inventorying books to very particular markets and readers. Not only is the book itself wasteful of trees, that's just the tiny beginning of the wastefulness of books getting from the head of the writer into the hands and minds of the readers. And we have this overly romanticized notion of the book as a perfectly elegant sensual object we sit next the fire, the beach, the lake and read at our leisure. This is actually a tiny percentage of the normal reader experiences AND it should never go away. But this isn't the "reader experience" or interactive experience most people have with books. People read books for work, for school, for technical knowledge and instruction and for far more reasons than the ONE and only often cited as the idyllic reason books can't go away. Giving a student a eReader and the ability to download all their books as they go away for college is just as valid a reason for change as a glass of wine, sunset and a leather bound book on the beach for NOT changing. Academic and college text books are extremely limited and outdated because of their distribution network. eReaders will significantly transform educational texts, make them significantly better and more up-to-date, and allow them world-wide distribution by simple download. And eReaders will do this at less cost. And for may uses, minus novels and fiction, books will become much more highly interactive, multimedia and connected to the internet. They will allow readers to mark up text, link text, and index their notes adding incredible value that currently doesn't exist with ink printed on paper. I don't think there is any question that change is here now. The entire publishing industry is being radically transformed and you can cry and be nostalgic for some romanticized past but those who resist and the reasons they give sound like defenders of 8-track tapes or Beta video tape formats. I think the list of 10 items is a lot pretty weak reasoning. I think Kurt begins to get at many of the problems with the “reasons.” Perhaps you are just trying to be funny or provocative… but still it is weak and seemingly uninformed (Kindle too big for example).

All of the current devices Kindle, Sony eReader, Nook, etc. are severely limited technologies – the first of their type and clearly will be seen as the Palm Pilot PDA or the MPMan and Rio MP3 players. The major and disqualifying characteristic of the Kindle and why it won’t last, in its current version, is that has a Black and White monitor. But that’s just the beginning of its hardware and design flaws.

The key to the Kindle or any other eReader to come along is not the hardware and just like the iPhone, it is the distribution infrastructure of being able to deliver CONTENT easily, efficiently, and by reducing costs that far exceed the book. Books are NOT easy to get, they are highly physically cumbersome to get into the hands of readers and difficult to distribute, especially if you want something more than just the best sellers and chart toppers.

Book buyers are constantly just guessing (and often poorly guessing) at what readers want and then begin this incredibly expensive channeling, routing, shipping, storing and inventorying books to very particular markets and readers. Not only is the book itself wasteful of trees, that’s just the tiny beginning of the wastefulness of books getting from the head of the writer into the hands and minds of the readers.

And we have this overly romanticized notion of the book as a perfectly elegant sensual object we sit next the fire, the beach, the lake and read at our leisure. This is actually a tiny percentage of the normal reader experiences AND it should never go away. But this isn’t the “reader experience” or interactive experience most people have with books. People read books for work, for school, for technical knowledge and instruction and for far more reasons than the ONE and only often cited as the idyllic reason books can’t go away.

Giving a student a eReader and the ability to download all their books as they go away for college is just as valid a reason for change as a glass of wine, sunset and a leather bound book on the beach for NOT changing. Academic and college text books are extremely limited and outdated because of their distribution network. eReaders will significantly transform educational texts, make them significantly better and more up-to-date, and allow them world-wide distribution by simple download. And eReaders will do this at less cost.

And for may uses, minus novels and fiction, books will become much more highly interactive, multimedia and connected to the internet. They will allow readers to mark up text, link text, and index their notes adding incredible value that currently doesn’t exist with ink printed on paper.

I don’t think there is any question that change is here now. The entire publishing industry is being radically transformed and you can cry and be nostalgic for some romanticized past but those who resist and the reasons they give sound like defenders of 8-track tapes or Beta video tape formats.

]]> By: Seth Harwood http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-8876 Seth Harwood Tue, 29 Dec 2009 05:52:20 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-8876 Very interesting, Keith. I especially like your point about kindle being the first ebook reader to be a household word. For all its flaws, I wonder whether the kindle will wind up with that dominance as the iPod has. For my money (and hand-size) an Apple product still just feels better and works more intuitively for me. We'll have to see what develops if/when Apple releases its tablet, something I guess everyone's waiting for. I like the point about amazon selling more ebooks than paper ones over Xmas, but if you step back it stands to reason: for every kindle given, and there were a lot, that'll lead directly to x number of ebooks purchased. So it works out. I'm not sure yet whether this'll develop into any kind of larger trend. I will be watching, however! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Great points! Seth Very interesting, Keith. I especially like your point about kindle being the first ebook reader to be a household word. For all its flaws, I wonder whether the kindle will wind up with that dominance as the iPod has. For my money (and hand-size) an Apple product still just feels better and works more intuitively for me.
We’ll have to see what develops if/when Apple releases its tablet, something I guess everyone’s waiting for.

I like the point about amazon selling more ebooks than paper ones over Xmas, but if you step back it stands to reason: for every kindle given, and there were a lot, that’ll lead directly to x number of ebooks purchased. So it works out. I’m not sure yet whether this’ll develop into any kind of larger trend. I will be watching, however!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Great points!

Seth

]]> By: Keith Peters http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-8873 Keith Peters Tue, 29 Dec 2009 01:50:16 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-8873 Well, over this holiday season, Amazon reports selling more Kindle books than "real" books. I think that with that, and with the B&N Nook selling out and Sony with something in the works, eBooks have actually finally arrived. Saying the Kindle is the iPod of books is a flawed comparison when you try to take it to the level you are taking it to. Because a book is not a song, or an album. So when you take the analogy to the point of carrying around x number of books vs. albums, you are just losing the point. The Kindle is the iPod of books in the sense that it has become the first ebook reader to become a household word. There were plenty of mp3 players before the iPod, and were and still are plenty with a lot more features. But very few people, percentage wise actually owned one. The iPod revolutionized the scene by being THE mp3 player everyone suddenly had. The Kindle is well on the way to doing the same thing in the world of books. Well, over this holiday season, Amazon reports selling more Kindle books than “real” books. I think that with that, and with the B&N Nook selling out and Sony with something in the works, eBooks have actually finally arrived.

Saying the Kindle is the iPod of books is a flawed comparison when you try to take it to the level you are taking it to. Because a book is not a song, or an album. So when you take the analogy to the point of carrying around x number of books vs. albums, you are just losing the point.

The Kindle is the iPod of books in the sense that it has become the first ebook reader to become a household word. There were plenty of mp3 players before the iPod, and were and still are plenty with a lot more features. But very few people, percentage wise actually owned one. The iPod revolutionized the scene by being THE mp3 player everyone suddenly had. The Kindle is well on the way to doing the same thing in the world of books.

]]> By: blah blah black sheep http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-7397 blah blah black sheep Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:59:06 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-7397 Much like how the PDA went the way of the Dodo once iPhones became personal organizers, Kindles are too overly specialized as well. While we have audio jacks and headphones for an iPhone, all we're missing is a visual jack & easily rollable & transportable screen ... something that can roll out to an 8x11 piece of paper and plug into the iPhone (or whatever multi-media device you use), to let you see what's on the screen in a bigger format. They're working on flexible OLED's and such. It won't be long before something like this comes out and makes the Kindle obsolete. All we're really doing is finding ways to make it more efficient to get information from a device into our sensory organs. The Kindle provides a large screen, but if the iPhone had an accessory that could do likewise, the Kindle would go away. While people first wanted specialized devices (mp3 player, phone, pda), we've moved on to having a generic, portable device that can do all of that (iPhone, Blackberry, Pre, etc). All they're missing is an easy way to increase screen size. Once an accesory comes out to easily do that, then the iPhone will just turn into a portable computer/interface device which we plug into with headphones and screen reader (or optic pipe, if we get to the point where we have a device that can shoot the images directly into our eyes.) Kindle is a niche device which won't last, since it ultimately can't compete with an iPhone. When folks leave their house, the iPhone is the most important gadget they remember to take, not the Kindle. (Generalization...there are folks who break that norm, but they would be exceptions, not the rule). Much like how the PDA went the way of the Dodo once iPhones became personal organizers, Kindles are too overly specialized as well. While we have audio jacks and headphones for an iPhone, all we’re missing is a visual jack & easily rollable & transportable screen … something that can roll out to an 8×11 piece of paper and plug into the iPhone (or whatever multi-media device you use), to let you see what’s on the screen in a bigger format. They’re working on flexible OLED’s and such. It won’t be long before something like this comes out and makes the Kindle obsolete. All we’re really doing is finding ways to make it more efficient to get information from a device into our sensory organs. The Kindle provides a large screen, but if the iPhone had an accessory that could do likewise, the Kindle would go away. While people first wanted specialized devices (mp3 player, phone, pda), we’ve moved on to having a generic, portable device that can do all of that (iPhone, Blackberry, Pre, etc). All they’re missing is an easy way to increase screen size. Once an accesory comes out to easily do that, then the iPhone will just turn into a portable computer/interface device which we plug into with headphones and screen reader (or optic pipe, if we get to the point where we have a device that can shoot the images directly into our eyes.) Kindle is a niche device which won’t last, since it ultimately can’t compete with an iPhone. When folks leave their house, the iPhone is the most important gadget they remember to take, not the Kindle. (Generalization…there are folks who break that norm, but they would be exceptions, not the rule).

]]> By: w hostman http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-7265 w hostman Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:46:42 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-7265 Reason 1: Bogus. Well, actually, for a kindle other than the DX, I'd have to reformat all my ebooks. For my sony, however, I CAN scan them, save as PDF's, and read the scans. I haven't. But I could. Reason 2 & 3: bogus. Paper is readily destroyed by age, bugs, damp, mold, mildew, careless children, etc. But new innovations (color offset printing, for example) have improved books drastically in the last 100 years... and the ebook is a new step. I don't have a kindle. I have a sony PRS505. I find it to be far superior fr actual reading than a book, except when I forget to charge it up. And a new generation could have thin-film solar panels on the back, and render that, too, a non-issue! Reason 4: I carry about 250 books around in my PRS500. I carry no more than 5 dead tree books around. I put the pewbook for church on my PRS 500... along with other things that I may use, but don't want to waste paper on a single use of. Reason 5: Irrelevant. I buy most books at home, or at a particular game store. When I ran a D&D game, I had my ebooks from my copy of the Etools CD on my ebook reader. AD&D 2E had 20 books I was referencing that way. Reason 6: Bogus. The screen is too damned SMALL, not too big. I want a full 8x10.5" screen, or at least 7.5x10", so I can more easily read the 8.5x11" PDFs I've got. And can put the 5x8" PDF's up 2pages at a time. Reason 7: Most books I've bought get read multiple times. If not, they were no good. I've got about 170 gaming books, most of which I've read multiple times, on my Sony. Reason 8: I don't want my Ebook reader to be my cellphone, nor vice versa; comfort forms are very different. And I want a BIGGER reader. Reason 9: The first one to be actually true. Reason 10: wrong. I'm about to upgrade to a PRS600 reader, for the search features and annotations. When Sony eventually releases a full-sheet (LTR/A4) reader, I'll go for that, too. As in, an addition, not a replacement, for the 600. So..... Why the kindle isnt' the new iPod? Price, DRM, fragility, and form factor. That keyboard is why I didn't like it; I'd rather have more screen space and a plug in membrane keyboard on the cover. (time to suggest that to Sony...) The eInk display is great; Sony made theirs rugged, amazon didn't. Price: Sony came in under. Not by much. But give it a couple years, and prices should drop. DRM: It sucks. Especially with Sony and Amazon's proprietary formats. But Sony realized this and shipped with support for several non-DRM formats on board... including rendering PDF rather than just translating it to a proprietary text-only format. My Sony, BTW, reads (natively) BBeB (Sony proprietary), MobyPocket, RTF, PDF, TXT. A 3rd party converter will make non-DRM BBeB from HTML and RSS, and also from RTF, Text, and PDF, if I choose to go that route. Plus, by use of Adobe software, I can authorize for most forms of DRM PDF for native rendering on the sony. We just need both a larger machine and a color machine, and preferably a price drop, to make things go POP! BTW, Baen sells their novels for $4-$7 in ebook formats, no DRM, and gives permission to share with immediate family. Fortunately, one of my favorite authors is in their stable: Bujold. Niven, too, but not the ones I want. Reason 1: Bogus. Well, actually, for a kindle other than the DX, I’d have to reformat all my ebooks.

For my sony, however, I CAN scan them, save as PDF’s, and read the scans. I haven’t. But I could.

Reason 2 & 3: bogus. Paper is readily destroyed by age, bugs, damp, mold, mildew, careless children, etc. But new innovations (color offset printing, for example) have improved books drastically in the last 100 years… and the ebook is a new step.
I don’t have a kindle. I have a sony PRS505. I find it to be far superior fr actual reading than a book, except when I forget to charge it up. And a new generation could have thin-film solar panels on the back, and render that, too, a non-issue!

Reason 4: I carry about 250 books around in my PRS500. I carry no more than 5 dead tree books around. I put the pewbook for church on my PRS 500… along with other things that I may use, but don’t want to waste paper on a single use of.

Reason 5: Irrelevant. I buy most books at home, or at a particular game store. When I ran a D&D game, I had my ebooks from my copy of the Etools CD on my ebook reader. AD&D 2E had 20 books I was referencing that way.

Reason 6: Bogus. The screen is too damned SMALL, not too big. I want a full 8×10.5″ screen, or at least 7.5×10″, so I can more easily read the 8.5×11″ PDFs I’ve got. And can put the 5×8″ PDF’s up 2pages at a time.

Reason 7: Most books I’ve bought get read multiple times. If not, they were no good. I’ve got about 170 gaming books, most of which I’ve read multiple times, on my Sony.

Reason 8: I don’t want my Ebook reader to be my cellphone, nor vice versa; comfort forms are very different. And I want a BIGGER reader.

Reason 9: The first one to be actually true.

Reason 10: wrong. I’m about to upgrade to a PRS600 reader, for the search features and annotations. When Sony eventually releases a full-sheet (LTR/A4) reader, I’ll go for that, too. As in, an addition, not a replacement, for the 600.

So…..

Why the kindle isnt’ the new iPod? Price, DRM, fragility, and form factor.

That keyboard is why I didn’t like it; I’d rather have more screen space and a plug in membrane keyboard on the cover. (time to suggest that to Sony…)

The eInk display is great; Sony made theirs rugged, amazon didn’t.

Price: Sony came in under. Not by much. But give it a couple years, and prices should drop.

DRM: It sucks. Especially with Sony and Amazon’s proprietary formats. But Sony realized this and shipped with support for several non-DRM formats on board… including rendering PDF rather than just translating it to a proprietary text-only format.

My Sony, BTW, reads (natively) BBeB (Sony proprietary), MobyPocket, RTF, PDF, TXT. A 3rd party converter will make non-DRM BBeB from HTML and RSS, and also from RTF, Text, and PDF, if I choose to go that route. Plus, by use of Adobe software, I can authorize for most forms of DRM PDF for native rendering on the sony.

We just need both a larger machine and a color machine, and preferably a price drop, to make things go POP!

BTW, Baen sells their novels for $4-$7 in ebook formats, no DRM, and gives permission to share with immediate family. Fortunately, one of my favorite authors is in their stable: Bujold. Niven, too, but not the ones I want.

]]> By: Nis Baggesen http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-6667 Nis Baggesen Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:50:53 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-6667 Personally I'm very happy with my iRex iLiad eBook reader. It is as nice to read on as a regular book, and much preferable to backlit screens. I tried Stanza for my iPhone, and while it is certainly a nice piece of software, I found the screen much too small and uncomfortable to read on. Also since it can be operated with one hand I find it more practical in a lot of ways, such as reading in bed (yes, that includes any dirty ideas you might get). Portability of books matter to me, because I'm usually in the process of reading 5 to 10 books at any given time. I never know what I'll be in the mood for reading next time, so it is nice to have a selection. It is true that I can't convert my entire library of regular paper books (which I still like, and I still purchase new ones as well) easily to an eletronic format, and that is a shame. On the other hand I know have a comfortable platform for all the great works that can be accessed via The Gutenberg Project, so suddenly I've actually started reading the classics. And similarly various pdfs I find - such as scientific articles - have a greater chance of being read, and I waste less paper printing stuff out. As for remote deletion, that is not an issue for me, since I don't use tethered formats - all the ebooks I buy is stuff I get to download and manage myself. Too me the only major downside of ebooks, is that since I'm the only one I know who owns an ebook reader, I can't easiliy share books (of course some would be DRM'ed so I couldn't do that anyway, but still). Personally I’m very happy with my iRex iLiad eBook reader.

It is as nice to read on as a regular book, and much preferable to backlit screens. I tried Stanza for my iPhone, and while it is certainly a nice piece of software, I found the screen much too small and uncomfortable to read on.

Also since it can be operated with one hand I find it more practical in a lot of ways, such as reading in bed (yes, that includes any dirty ideas you might get).

Portability of books matter to me, because I’m usually in the process of reading 5 to 10 books at any given time. I never know what I’ll be in the mood for reading next time, so it is nice to have a selection.

It is true that I can’t convert my entire library of regular paper books (which I still like, and I still purchase new ones as well) easily to an eletronic format, and that is a shame. On the other hand I know have a comfortable platform for all the great works that can be accessed via The Gutenberg Project, so suddenly I’ve actually started reading the classics. And similarly various pdfs I find – such as scientific articles – have a greater chance of being read, and I waste less paper printing stuff out. As for remote deletion, that is not an issue for me, since I don’t use tethered formats – all the ebooks I buy is stuff I get to download and manage myself.

Too me the only major downside of ebooks, is that since I’m the only one I know who owns an ebook reader, I can’t easiliy share books (of course some would be DRM’ed so I couldn’t do that anyway, but still).

]]> By: alex http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-6642 alex Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:05:53 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-6642 reason #11, the name "kindle" is terrible. there's a good post about the name of electronic readers here: http://onthebutton.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/books-are-so-yesterday/ reason #11, the name “kindle” is terrible. there’s a good post about the name of electronic readers here: http://onthebutton.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/books-are-so-yesterday/

]]> By: rose http://www.openculture.com/2009/08/top_ten_reasons_why_the_kindle_wont_be_an_ipod_for_books.html/comment-page-1#comment-6641 rose Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:00:42 +0000 http://www.openculture.com/?p=4413#comment-6641 even the name kindle evokes images of books burning in the wake of the new technology...not going to happen. there's an interesting story about e-reader names over here: http://onthebutton.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/books-are-so-yesterday/ even the name kindle evokes images of books burning in the wake of the new technology…not going to happen. there’s an interesting story about e-reader names over here:

http://onthebutton.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/books-are-so-yesterday/

]]>